In this interview with Emmanuel Addeh, a former governor of Imo State and current senator representing Imo West, Rochas Okorocha, insists that what the All Progressives Congress had during its last national convention was not a consensus arrangement, but that everything was done out of respect for President Muhammadu Buhari. He also maintains that Nigeria needs a president who can run the country creatively like a businessman, summarising the country’s problem in one word: money or put more appropriately, the lack of it. The federal lawmaker suggests that the party should refund monies paid by aggrieved aspirants before the national convention, making the point that Buhari’s major weakness is that he’s too trusting of his aides
A lot of people have declared for the presidency in 2023. What is new that you are bringing to the table?
2023 in Nigeria is a very important date in the history of this nation when we shall decide our future, our fate moving forward. It is very key given the mood of the nation. It will determine whether we move forward or we move backwards and that is why I am personally concerned about the mood of the nation and that’s the reason why I have decided to run for the office of the president.
The mood of the nation suggests that we must change our style, our way of thinking, our way of doing things. We need completely new ideas to run the affairs of this country because it is obvious that what we have been practicing in the past has not helped us as a nation.
So my coming to run for office of the president is about bringing new ideas , new programmes, something quite different from the old practices, realising that we’ve been doing the same thing, the same old way and getting the same old results.
But somebody will say you had a chance of replicating these new ideas in your eight years as Imo governor because depending on who you talk to today, people have mixed opinions as to how well you performed in Imo State.
There are two types of leaders in Nigeria, the newspaper leaders and practical leaders. I happen to fall into the category of those who do the job and talk less and not those who talk more and do less.
And if you’re busy as a governor, you may not even have time to showcase what you have done. And if you are doing well, the projects may be too numerous for you to start commissioning everyday. For me as governor of Imo State, I pride myself as having done not just well, but very well.
I had over 2,000 projects in Imo State. I changed the landscape of the state. I introduced free education in Imo State from primary to secondary to university for eight years, where the student population grew in a geometrical progression from 236,000 to close a 1.9 something million.
Security was at its best when I was a governor. Peace was the order of the day. I introduced community government council that allows for rural participation in governance. Now, I introduced “Youth Must Work” that engaged these youths on daily basis and that’s why it took many youths, not under an official employment, but a temporary kind of employment that engaged them while trying to get them into a permanent job. So everybody was busy.
I saw land as an asset. I made land a valuable asset and that helped the most. When I came to Imo state, a plot of land was N1 million, before I left, a plot of land became N50 to N100 million. I engaged in urban renewal.
I left N48.3 billion in the coffers of Imo State and owed no bank, not a single bank were we owing while I was in office and I challenge all the banks in Nigeria to speak. I didn’t believe in commissioning of projects because when you are moving a president or moving somebody to come, it will cost you N100 million for logistics. Imo State was the least corrupt state according to Transparency International (TI) and National Bureau of Statistics (NBS).
We had a system that did not follow the bureaucratic bottlenecks of administration, that when you start with a project, you have to wait for 10 months, before actualising the contract process, the design assessment and consultants, etc.
Still on your ambition, we haven’t seen you criss-crossing the length and breadth of this country like one of the frontline aspirants.
The stage we are now is the stage of internal party affairs, talking to delegates, governors and other stakeholders of the party. Until they make you, until you win and carry the flag of the party before you can consult the rest of the world.
The primaries, that’s what is key for now. Our system is quite different and if you notice, I’ve been in this game three times or four times. All these aspirants, in APC are just new in the system and they will have to do what we did many years ago.
I’ve been in this field. So what is important now is talking to the party and I am more concerned about getting a stable party that can have a free and fair primaries. The issue of zoning comes in, the issue of delegates comes in, the political structure itself of the party comes in. So, my consultation is within the party now.
If I get the party structure, then you can now meet our elder statesmen to say look, I’m having my party structure, could you support me for the Nigerian project?
You’ve always had the belief that the APC will crumble if it doesn’t recognise its founding fathers. Very recently, the president had a meeting with you and a number of APC founders. Are you satisfied with the discussions that took place?
I had my worries ab initio about our party. One, the fact that we seemed to have forgotten how it all started, and we had so many intruders into the party, who are used to the old style PDP politics. So that was my worry.
But the president showed leadership at the very breaking point and if he had not done that within that period, probably we would not have a party today. So thank God he intervened at that point and showed leadership and for the love we all have for the party, those stakeholders, especially some of us founding fathers, were so happy. We just wanted to let it be, no matter the injustice notice, and that’s what happened.
So APC convention is called “let it just be no matter who is hurt.” So that we can push it behind us and move ahead and with that in mind, I believe that APC is back as a family, but not without some complaints and anger. And I think as time goes by, we will see who is pacified. But for some of us, we have accepted to take all the nonsense and rubbish and insults and anger and chew it and move ahead, knowing that this nation is bigger than any one of us.
Now there’s a new leadership of the party in place. What do you think should be the priority of the new team?
It should be reconciliation, reconciliation and reconciliation. It should come up with a well couched programme for the primaries so that everyone will believe that the intention of the party is to have a free and fair elections. We must be bold enough to call a spade a spade on the issue of zoning so as to not allow people spend energy and at the end you tell them to step down.
I think with this in mind, we’ll be cruising as a party because this is really key. And they should look at all outstanding court cases and court judgments where they must be implemented. And let them obey court judgments and court orders and where matters are still pending, the party can be called in to withdraw it.
This is the way forward and and I think with the person of Abdullahi Adamu, a man who is focused, I believe he will do just that.
During the last convention of the APC, there was virtually no election. If at the end of the day, during the primaries the president decides again to use the same tactics or consensus strategy and you are not the candidate, what happens next?
You know about consensus. Consensus means total agreement. What you saw happen in the last convention is not actually a consensus. It was a display of respect for the person of President Muhammadu Buhari and the love of one’s party because most people left pained and aggrieved. But you say because of Buhari, I subsume my ambition. And I thought that was out of respect for President Buhari and that’s why I suggest that all the contestants who made huge sacrifices, that party should return their money with some letters of appreciation.
But it is quite a different thing when it comes to the issue of the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, because in the case of the consensus in the party, it starts and finishes with a party. But in the case of presidential primaries, it goes beyond the party, it takes the whole nation.
So, talking about myself, for instance, if I’m contacted by anybody first and foremost, contact is not an order, it is persuasive. I need to hear from the party to say, “you know Rochas, you are not sellable in the northern part of this country. They will not vote for you”. “Oh, Rochas you didn’t do well as a governor. So for that reason, step down, because the party wants to win. So you have to really bring the reasons, but if you know that Rochas is sellable, that Nigeria masses love Rochas Okorocha, why would you want to tell your best to step down?
Let me be honest with you, what is between me and victory to Ask Rock is the party ticket.
You feel once you have the APC ticket, it is done?
Once I have the APC ticket, it’s a done deal in this country unless we are not talking about Nigeria and the people of Nigeria. And so where I’ve always had that entanglement is always the party. Once I cross the party and I have the ticket, the matter is put to rest and the new Nigeria will start.
Do you think APC should also throw open its ticket or should it go to the south?
The APC presidential ticket should go to the south for equity, justice and fairness and to give everyone a sense of belonging. Secondly, even in the south, there’s need for micro-zoning like it was done in the days of Olu Falae and President Olusegun Obasanjo. They should look at South-east and micro-zone it to South-east to complete this long-awaited circle and for justice and peace. The APC should be able to stand firm.
People have said Nigeria has derailed. That the next administration will have a lot of work to do. What specifically should Nigerians be looking out for in that individual that will redirect this country?
The problem is that we have been pursuing shadows. Nigerians don’t even understand the problem. Let me summarise it for you. The problem is wealth creation and more wealth creation. It’s money, money, money.
It’s not enough and that’s what is giving rise to all these problems. Call it borrowing, lack of engagement of youths, call it kidnapping. Every problem that you have this in this country is money related.
And it is not different from a typical family where there’s no money. You will have quarrels unless where you have an extraordinary husband or father of the house, who has a system of communication to make the children see reasons. My one point agenda is wealth creation for the people.
And how do you intend to do that?
The problem today is that you are owing about N80 trillion. Now despite the debts you owe, all you make every year from your businesses: customs, taxes, etc is N5.5 trillion or maximum N6 trillion every year.
You need to feed your nation, take care of the security, pay teachers and to do all that, then by cars. All those things , you need about N15 trillion now. That’s why the budget keeps revolving around that N15 trillion. What are you going to do? If you ask this question, 70 per cent of the aspirants will resign from their aspiration.
The problem is not necessarily the money you owe, but your problem is the ability to increase this your N6 trillion to become N20 trillion. Nigerians are not fighting each other. Hunger is the issue.
Remember the problem of Nigeria of today will be increased by 10 times in the next 10 years or five years even, when these children who are not going to school will be 20 to 23 years old. If you bring that bests the most honest leader in this country, he cannot change the situation for as long as there’s no wealth creation.
Look at all the aspirants, check what is called track record. How many people running for president or governor today has a business background?
A number of people believe that the problem with the South-east is that they do not speak with one voice and looking at the aspirants from the region, they seem to have a point…
I think what has happened in Nigeria is the analysis of giving a dog a bad name to hang it. So, I wonder whether these assessments are coming out of love or out of hate. Take for instance Pastor Tunde Bakare who said, that the Igbo people are cursed.
He sowed a very funny seed, dramatising the reason for the curse and he (Bakare) is the only one in the world who can remove the curse. Anybody, weak-minded people will buy into that cheap story. But you know it is a seed of discord between the Igbos and the north, an indirect way of sowing a seed.
By the way which zone is not quarrelling? Where’d the United States of South West, South-south etc. Why is the one in Igbo land different. When people want to deprive you of your right, they always make excuses.
My appeal to Nigerians is that this rejected stone might become the chief cornerstone of this nation. They have been rejected for too long.
You are not known to be afraid to take positions on national issues. What is your general assessment of the Buhari administration?
My general assessment of Buhari’s administration is that of a man struggling with little resources to solve a very mighty problem. It’s like a gentleman struggling with N10,000 to solve a N1 billion problem.
But if you ask me what he should have done differently, I would say he should have concentrated more on wealth creation so that we have more resources.
Secondly, when he trusts, he trusts without asking questions. That’s why you have ministers there for eight years as elected officials because of trust, that’s his nature, the way he is wired. Once he trusts you, he doesn’t want to supervise you because he believes you can do it. So, if there’s anything that you find wanting about him, it is his “over trust” of people.
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